Curse

Symeon · Nov 09, 2005, 04:08 PM // 16:08

Cross fingers that no-one has suggested this exactly before

I know it goes against a lot of people's idea that rank spoils teams because good teams always ask for it, but it would mean they wouldn't have to ask you your rank to see it.

Navaros · Nov 09, 2005, 04:10 PM // 16:10

/signed

It would stop all rank 3's from lying about being rank 5's, and rank 6's lying about being rank 8's etc.

Definitely should be a way to check another player's actual rank.

Thumbs up!

Trance Addict · Nov 09, 2005, 04:27 PM // 16:27

I'm rank 12. Jesus emote included. It looks a lot like a deer.

striderkaaru · Nov 09, 2005, 04:29 PM // 16:29

/notsigned

this may sound great for currently ranked players, but it makes it infinitely harder for people who want to start pvp'ing in tombs. it might be because you don't want noobs on your team, but i think it will only foster a more elitist environment where the number next to your name is more important than anything else.

i have my own qualms about the whole rank system since i have just recently started tombing, but i will keep those to myself for now. instead, i will tell a story.

i have only recently started tombing. last night was my second night, as a matter of fact. i got into a group who asked for one kd/as warrior (which i was). later on, while discussing strategy, i found out that they only wanted r3+ players. there was a bit of a mix up, and in the confusion, they forgot to ask me to prove my rank. we started and actually did pretty well. i am both open-minded and a quick learner. i even became target caller at one point, and there were never any complaints. it was good for me to learn the dynamics of tombing and get to know the maps. the team played well as a whole and there were no complaints when we eventually lost. we even went again and kept the team together for a good while.

the point is, i never would have had that chance if they booted me because of a number next to my name. with all that said, we all had a great time and no one minded having me on the team.

this suggestion is meant to keep new players out of the loop and preventing them from getting any experience.

definitely thumbs down.

Trance Addict · Nov 09, 2005, 04:33 PM // 16:33

/signed

I have 8xx fame and I still show a deer. So, get a different emote for every rank 3+ or get me a way to actually prove that I am a R5, since, as the topic creator stated, there's basically no difference between R3/4/5 and 6/7/8 so people can just lie and say they're higher than they actually are.

EternalTempest · Nov 09, 2005, 04:43 PM // 16:43

/notsigned

As a pve thinking about doing pvp, having rank of "0" attached to my name when I do deciced to do PvP getting exculded due to no experience will drive me to random arena's where rank doesn't matter. It sounds like for the higher ups ranks there should be more emotes.

Symeon · Nov 09, 2005, 04:45 PM // 16:45

I guess we have rather divided opinions on the rank issue

Trance Addict · Nov 09, 2005, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by EternalTempest

/notsigned

As a pve thinking about doing pvp, having rank of "0" attached to my name when I do deciced to do PvP getting exculded due to no experience will drive me to random arena's where rank doesn't matter. It sounds like for the higher ups ranks there should be more emotes.

With no emotes, everyone knows you have less than 180 fame. Suck it up. PUG it up, get to that 180 fame, then you're fine.

Navaros · Nov 09, 2005, 05:08 PM // 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Symeon

I guess we have rather divided opinions on the rank issue

Yeah, it basically boils down into 2 camps:

1. Those incapable of getting a good rank, hate the rank system

2. Those who have a good rank, love the rank system

I think the devs should put more stock in the camp who loves the rank system. Everyone had to endure the "I can only get into crappy parties!" grind to get to rank 6 when they first started out. They they broke free from that with perservance and dedication which eventually led them to become rank 6. Those players shouldn't have their achievements lessened simply because less-dedicated, less-skilled players outnumber them.

The game should not cater to those are incapable of getting a good rank. Rather, it should cater to those who are skilled and dedicated enough to have a good rank.

Trance Addict · Nov 09, 2005, 05:12 PM // 17:12

Quote:

Everyone had to endure the "I can only get into crappy parties!" grind to get to rank 6 when they first started out.

I can't say I did. Wallace was nice enough to take me in Tombs with a few decently ranked guilds to get my R3 quicker. Since then, I've pretty much partied with every high ranked guild, played vs every high ranked guild and beaten every high ranked guild (Except those NEWS people, whom I always I suck against for some reason). Most high ranked people won't take you if you're just a "Rank 3 X/Y". Show them you're competant, know how to play, have a decent amount of experience and they'll take you in no problems. I ran with Lara Valor when I was rank 2 IIRC.

CoCantz · Nov 09, 2005, 05:42 PM // 17:42

Im not a PvP player atm = no rank = thumbs down for the rank system

as allready ponted out - I would/will have props getting my ranks up if I didnt know PvP players that want me in their team. Im a good Necro and ppl req. me to join their PvP-team even though I dont really play PvP and have much pvp-xp - cuz I know my necro and can play any build. Therefor Im way more useful than a r3/6/whatever nOOb that was lifted to his rank by good teammates... blah blah - you've heard it

- CoCantz

Pevil Lihatuh · Nov 09, 2005, 05:48 PM // 17:48

"Yeah, it basically boils down into 2 camps:

1. Those incapable of getting a good rank, hate the rank system

2. Those who have a good rank, love the rank system"

This is why people hate the rank system. Comments like this. I have no rank. Why? Coz I've never tombed. I would like to start one day. However from all the stories I read, I won't get into any group. I don't care if I get another group of all rank 0, coz if we're good enough the rank 3's are gonna die anyway. But if everyone sees I'm a 0, I stand no chance.

Then again people with the attitude of "omg they are rank 0, I'm not even gonna ask why" aren't the kind I'd wanna play with.

If you gotta have it like this, why not just have a new emote for every step in the rank ladder. Then you know what rank someone is, and if they refuse to /rank you know they were lying.

I don't mind the rank system. I shouldn't have too much trouble getting started as my guildies will always be up for some PvP. I just don't like the "omg you n00bs clearly suck" attitude that most people seem to get from rank.

Navaros · Nov 09, 2005, 06:00 PM // 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pevil Lihatuh

I just don't like the "omg you n00bs clearly suck" attitude that most people seem to get from rank.

Well, you can't really blame players for having that attitude because the reality is that most players do suck. A good player in Guild Wars is an exception rather than the rule. Therefore it is only logical to assume that an unranked/low ranked player sucks. Because chances are much better that he does in fact suck, than that he doesn't.

Knowing this, the rank system is the best way of gauging that chances are good that a high ranked player will not suck. It's not a perfect system, but at least it's something - and something is far better than nothing.

Talk is cheap. Anyone can say they are good at playing the game. Rank gives some actual credibility to an unknown player in a way that mere talk never could.

romO · Nov 09, 2005, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pevil Lihatuh

"Yeah, it basically boils down into 2 camps:

1. Those incapable of getting a good rank, hate the rank system

2. Those who have a good rank, love the rank system"

This is why people hate the rank system. Comments like this. I have no rank. Why? Coz I've never tombed. I would like to start one day. However from all the stories I read, I won't get into any group. I don't care if I get another group of all rank 0, coz if we're good enough the rank 3's are gonna die anyway. But if everyone sees I'm a 0, I stand no chance.

Then again people with the attitude of "omg they are rank 0, I'm not even gonna ask why" aren't the kind I'd wanna play with.

If you gotta have it like this, why not just have a new emote for every step in the rank ladder. Then you know what rank someone is, and if they refuse to /rank you know they were lying.

I don't mind the rank system. I shouldn't have too much trouble getting started as my guildies will always be up for some PvP. I just don't like the "omg you n00bs clearly suck" attitude that most people seem to get from rank.

listen though, rank does not show your skill. we understand that. however, there is a lot of strategy to tombs and pvp in generaly that people with low rank are simply not experienced enough to know. it takes a while to learn all of the maps and develop proper strategies for them, and that is what rank shows. you are basing your arguement based on the misconception that all pvp is is being matched up 8v8 with another team and having the last team standing be the victor, which is untrue. most teams these days dont specialize in killing 1v1, but rather on ability to hold the altar so that a long string of hoh victories is possible. you also need to devote skills to relic runs and still have enough pure force to take down another team in underworld, burial mounds, or dark chambers. i guarantee that most people who complain about not being able to get good groups due to lack of rank would not be able to give me a proper strategy for each and every map as well as detailed functions of each character and team build. and that is what rank helps you build up. trust me, if you just suck it up to rank 3 or 6, which is what i did along with many others, you will be able to play like you deserve that rank.

Lasareth · Nov 09, 2005, 06:11 PM // 18:11

I'm in a relatively small guild that doesn't pvp in ToPK. When I go there, I wouldn't like to have the fact that I'm not a high rank displayed for people to judge me on. If people are really that concerned about rank, all it takes is a quick /rank to see which multiple of 3 you are.

I'm all for being able to decide based on rank, but I don't think that this type of selectivity should be encouraged in this way.

Epinephrine · Nov 09, 2005, 06:17 PM // 18:17

Rank can be meaningless, as you can be the least useful member of an IWAY team for example, and simply play a lot. I may not be the most experienced player in tombs, but I bet my win % is a heck of a lot better than many. I don't play much as it takes too long to organise (and I chiefly play during my daughter's nap, or once everyone is tucked in for the night/before my bedtime), and I don't like FoTM. So, I play TA mostly.

Let's (for sake of argument) say I have a >50% win record. I go in mostly with my guild, play rarely in tombs and I am Rank 1. I have maybe 40 tombs battles under my belt, from which I have 25+ fame, and have been to the HoH 3 times, and faced iQ in one of them (and I think done a good job, though they won). Someone with many more hours to waste instead has run 1000 tombs battles in the past while, uses whatever the most braindead FoTM he can find is and has eked out a good 125 fame or so. Who would you rather have? The guy who needs to be told what to play, has a dismal win ratio and higher rank or the guy who has a good grasp of strategy but not enough play-time?

The fact is that as long as you win a portion of your matches you can build up rank, and you don't need to be good to do so - you just need to play a lot. That's no measure of ability. I won't say there is no correlation, as I am sure there is, but the fact is that I'd pick a guy wwho gets the metagame and can justify a build over the guy who slapped together an IWAY warrior and has won his rank through the 5% of his matches that he wins.

Really now, you think that the warrior who was smited off of in all those matches dominated by smiting needed to do anything much? He could be a bloody henchman and he would've served - "go stand there and radiate damage" - yet that's how these guys built fame? Right, really good system. Well, luckily I never pub tomb, only with guild, so it's not like it affects me, but my rank 1 is better than many higher ranks out there, as I did it with good strings of wins, with builds I helped make, and not through endless FoTM runs hoping for an easy victory.

EternalTempest · Nov 09, 2005, 07:35 PM // 19:35

I agree that with the current system I will have to starting doing pugs if I do Tombs and grind till I get a certain rank as it now.

Anet has done a lot to hide a information from the displays. I think the reason they did this across the board is to discourage party decisions based off some stat, or exact armor levels, or lack of skill in your active bar due to someone else thing you’re an xx/xx and telling you how to play your character.

There two arguments against this are:

1) To soften the harder time to get to parties due to not enough rank (be it bad player or new to PvP tombs.

2) The argument of rank doesn't hold the real "weight/skill" of it. All it shows you played tombs, no argument for skill. Some it's earned but if the system allows for unskilled players to get rank, then it's busted (even though there are some high ranking members who earned it the hard way).

Let me word this to get less flames:
In math if you need an exact number and you have a system where you add an variable/guess + a specific number (where rank actually works) you still don't equal an exact number

True Ranked + Rank with no skill does not equal "Rank" as a 100% sure. It's a system that kinda works.

Pevil Lihatuh · Nov 09, 2005, 09:19 PM // 21:19

lol someone beat me to it. And agreed on how good players are the exception

Indeed, Rank can show you have skill. Thats why I don't want rid of rank. However, with recent certain builds, you can get away with having very little skill. People should simply take on someone and if that person happens to suck, get rid of 'em

No doubt that you wouldn't get to R12 by playing IWAY with no skill, coz its unlikely you'd get all that way without coming across a group who was actually good enough to counter you.

What we really need for a suggestion is a brain transplant, so 'cheap' players just decide not to pvp and all the other good players get the rank thing out of their head

hehe

Navaros · Nov 09, 2005, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pevil Lihatuh

People should simply take on someone and if that person happens to suck, get rid of 'em

That's a great dream, but in reality it is not practical at all to do so.

No one has time to take in 7 random strangers and then test them all out and drop them if they suck.

Rank helps to alleviate this problem in a practical way that people actually have enough time to do.

Symeon · Nov 09, 2005, 09:39 PM // 21:39

Ummm I really have started an argument between the two factions, those for rank and those against it
All I suggested was that rank could be shown by someone's name, just to prevent people having to ask for it.